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ManagerLeague Season 30 revealed! <--Back
Season 30 of ManagerLeague revealed!

Like clockwork, or the periodic cycle we pretend to not know anything about when confronted by 11 year old daughters, we have yet again reached a change of seasons here in ManagerLeague.
And it is a little anniversary too, going into the 30th season. Congratulations to us, and to you all!

picAnd, not surprisingly, there are a number of updates you should know about, resulting from the last month of development here at ManagerLeague Headquarters. For the second season in a row, finding and eliminating bugs / problems has been the main focus, but a lot of other things have also been improved.

As far as we know, this now concludes our effort towards getting rid of "bugs" for a while, as we are running out of them, which is a very good thing (and about time!). And with those out of the way, I hope that I will be able to get enough time over the next 2 months to finish the work on Champions League and Cup Winner Cups. When I do start this process next week, it means that all suggestions will be ignored until these new Leagues / Cups are in place, thats how it has to be with just 1 developer (!)

In addition to getting all the "bugs" out of the system, we have seen the need for a more structured forum, so we have built the forums in groups now, grouped by language. In example, the forum currently known as the Norwegian Forum, will be several forums, all in Norwegian; Norwegian General Discussions, Norwegian Real Football, Norwegian ManagerLeague Discussions etc.
This means we have a lot more forums all in all, so we have tried to group them by language, so you will not have to deal with the languages you do not care about. Inside each group, you can chose to "subscribe" to one, some or all of the forums therein.
And only subscribed forums will show you threads in the Latest Threads at the top of your General page.
It may be a bit of change, but once you get used to it, you will never miss the "old ways" again :=)

We have also been convinced to look at some issues in the transfer-system, and have taken some steps to improve fairness, prevent cheating and reducing the price on some of the young and promising player. However, we also saw that the printed "value" was much to low in most cases, to indicate the Market Value, so we have made some adjustments to the printed value to improve on this.
In addition to this, we have been slightly worried by the transfers including large credit-amounts, so we have implemented some fairly strict limits on how much can be donated.

Here is the list of changes for next season:

Fixes:
- A serious flaw was found in the simulator, triggered by swapping players around on the field in an event. For example, if player X got a red card, and was swapped with Player Y in an event, it is actually Player X playing and Player Y not playing.
- On the portal front page, the profile picture of bloggers was no longer displayed as it should be. Please upload profile pictures on the portal and submit a blog-entry.
- Also about blogs, the time-stamp was bugged in the XML-feed of blogs. This was confusing for a lot of feed-applications. Should now be fixed.
- In-game, on the Staff-page, the pop-up that is displayed when hiring new staff could show the wrong Wanted Contract Length for staff aged higher than 45. This should now be fixed. Over 45, they now want a max contract of 66 rounds, and over 50 they will just want 33 rounds.
- A bug was found in the Platinum Boot award, making it go to the wrong player. This should now be fixed.
- Entries in finances with an amount of 0 (zero) are no longer rendered in the "expenses" column, 0 is hereby defined as a positive number
- Teamless players should now have the correct values, always!

picImproved Forums -> Better structure -> Cleaner forums:
- The forums have now been restructured, so a little confusion is to be expected.
-- Forums are now grouped based on language, with exception of the Common forums for Bugs and Game Announcements etc.
-- To see threads on the General-page, you need to Subscribe to forums
-- On preferences, you can now select your default Forum View. The default is the new Group-view which is required if you wish to subscribe to forums.
-- Forum groups now close when you open a new one

Formula-changes
- A new VALUE formula is now in use to better reflect the real market value of players. This is a very noticeable change in some cases, specially when it comes to highly talented youngsters. The actual MARKET-VALUE will live a life of it's own, as always, but at least now the printed value is a little closer. It may now be a much better alternative to buy players slightly older if you need to consider the size of your teams wallet
- The number of teamless players being generated during a season has been increased quite a bit. This has been decided to try to reduce the extreme prices on young players, and to make them more available to everyone.
- The formula for calculating the Quality of each player has been altered. Previously, it had an Age-factor, to illustrate that a more experienced player would perform better overall than a youngster, even with the same attributes. However, since Quality and Age is the base for the Value, this has been altered. If your players quality seems to have changed more than normal this season-change, this is why! I stress though, the Quality doesn't affect anything but Value and Wages, so it has no effect in the simulator.

* NOTE *
At the first glance, the increased Value for young players can look shocking to some of the newer or poorer teams. But please consider that the "value" up until now has had nothing to do with the real Market Value, and so it has been a number with no true meaning.
picThe difference is of course in regards to buying such players from the open market; Players without a team. Yes, this is now more expensive, and yes, it will hurt poor teams a little more. However, you still pay far less than the current Market Value for this player, so selling him with profit, if that is what you wish, is still a valid option. But the best young players are not for everyone, you should have a strong economy before getting them, or everyone would have a whole team of Ronaldos and Rooneys!

Changes to the transfer-system
- Auto-rejection of bids have been implemented. If any bid has been standing as highest bid for 5 days without being accepted or rejected, all bids for that player will now be automatically rejected.
- Sacking a player now actually DELETES him permanently. This is due to the player being mostly unwanted and rubbish, and to avoid team "cooperating" by sacking players to each other (read: cheating)

* NOTE *
Again, some people might think deleting sacked players is going too far, and that it prevents young new teams from picking up the "leftovers" from better teams when they reach a certain age. And this is a fair argument. However, with the new value-model, old players that might have been sacked before, are now easier to sell for a lower price, and so they are a better buy from team to team.
It is important that we do not let users try to cheat by making more than 1 team and sack a player from a secondary team only to pick him up with his main team, and this is a very efficient way of doing so. A fair game is one of the keys to a fair transfer-market!

Changes to Credit Donations (which also affects transfers actually)
Lately we have seen a growing amount of "silly transfers" where credit-donations are part of the deal. We have also seen a limited number of people spending WAY MORE money to buy credits to buy top players, in a very short time. So even if we need money to live and work with improving and running ML, we can not sit and watch people spending several hundred Euros per season. We are aware that we might face a drop in income over this, but it is the responsible thing to do.
These credit-deals have also lead to teams paying other teams to buy poor players for a lot of money, so they circumvented the limit of 50 conversions per season by going through other teams. This will no longer work now of course, with new limits in place.
So, donation-limits have been implemented:
- You can donate up to 20 credits to any number of players in the game per season. (We still think it's very nice that people share credits with friends and family, by all means, or pay 10 credits for a cool team-logo or forum avatar.)
- You can donate more than 10 credits to 1 team per season, and the max is 200. (Here you can choose to spend up to 200 credits on ONE donation per season, to retain the possibility of a birthday-gift, Christmas-gift (!) or even a transfer where credits are involved.)

picSmall improvements:
- To avoid confusion, I now print a little friendly warning if you book a training-camp that involves RESTING (which is pointless during a training-camp)
- Individual training now shows the total Q-diff for your team this season
- The header-link to "new offers" will now remain "lit" even when the page has been visited, as long as there are bids there you can accept or reject. This is to remind people they have pending bids to deal with.
- A League and Division selector has been added to the 4 normal rankings, so you can see the ranking-list you wish without using cryptic URLs!

Optimizations:
- A commonly used library function has been optimized, to improve speed on ALL pages marginally. (But when you consider 800.000 page-views per day, a speedup of 0.1 second per page is quite noticeable!)

Languages:
Updated in-game language-files for
- Norwegian
- Dutch
- Portuguese
- Bulgarian
- Romanian
Updated portal language-files for
- German


So there you have it, folks, another season brewing just over the horizon, with more speed, less bugs, a much better forum, more fair transfers, and a few other tidbits to look forward to.
All the best for season 30!

Comments are always welcome, positive or negative!

- Spinner

NOTE
The credit-limits have been altered to 20 / 200 in the section above.

Written by Spinner 21:25 27/11 2007

This article has been read 10935 times.
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74 comment(s)
By : loknissenVery nice!   21:39 27/11 2007
pictureLooks good as usal!

Are you going to have more forum admins/moderators when the new forum comes?
I really look forward to that one. (New forums.)

By : Matt the MancThe Bug?   21:40 27/11 2007
pictureAs per usual it sounds great, the picture of the bug is making me itch, ha ha.

Matt

By : Sven-Goran ErikssonGood!!   21:44 27/11 2007
pictureGood to fix the credit - donate!!

By : Konsennice   21:45 27/11 2007
picturevery nice

By : Immortalgreat!   21:48 27/11 2007
pictureawesome as always Spinner, looking forward to next season allready

By : TheChickenKeep Spinning   21:50 27/11 2007
pictureVery good Spinner.
Love the social awareness in limitation of cred donations.
Shows that you are wise as well as cleverWinky

By : Aleksgreat   21:59 27/11 2007
pictureGreat changes: the players dissapearearing when sacked, or the max donations...
is it true that there are people wasting hundred of euros every season??? lol

By : Man_U_freakGreat   22:01 27/11 2007
pictureAwesome work!

By : Mr KaizerGreat, but...   22:04 27/11 2007
pictureSounds great!

I dislike the credit donation limit of max 10 credits (to more than one team) though...
Some of us enjoy some innocent betting during the season, and this will reduce the winning price...

By : AlienG4Great   22:08 27/11 2007
pictureGood job Big Boss

By : SeabergNice   22:15 27/11 2007
pictureThis looks good

By : GrannyRoboMy own Heading!   22:28 27/11 2007
pictureIm still a touch hesitant over the value change but nice work

By : krakilskGame set ^^   22:29 27/11 2007
pictureLike the changes alot this season Spinner

By : starboybetter idea.......   22:40 27/11 2007
pictureinstead of deleting players that are sacked automatically you could hav so just players below 60Q or something so that a team with the max amount of players can still sack a good player to buy one from others or teamless players. just i thought cause i still don't like the transfer market.........

By : Roger11Hva med   22:57 27/11 2007
pictureHva med å kunne oppgradere flere ting på stadion samtidig, det hadde vært herlig. Ellers så er det et helt supert spill

By : MalayedVery Intresting!!!   00:47 28/11 2007
pictureThis looks very intresting.........

By : FleXUSCreditdeals   01:14 28/11 2007
pictureThis is really bad. 100 credits is nothing. I cant see how i can sell players when credits will be taken away as a part of the payment. 100 credits is worth 30 mill. which is nothing. To sell a player worth 300 mill i now need 270 mill in cash. Few teams can affort that when they cant use more credits.

By : SkotNice job, as allways...   08:49 28/11 2007
pictureLooking forward to see them in practice...
I'm a little hesitant about the new value and Q formulas, but will get used to them....

By : Tore PupperGood job Spinner!   09:40 28/11 2007
pictureI think this is one of the best updates ever! Looking forward to next season!

By : SpinnerCreditdeals   10:02 28/11 2007
picture

This is really bad. 100 credits is nothing. I cant see how i can sell players when credits will be taken away as a part of the payment. 100 credits is worth 30 mill. which is nothing. To sell a player worth 300 mill i now need 270 mill in cash. Few teams can afford that when they cant use more credits.


And if few teams can afford it, the prices will be adjusted downwards!

By : sibodoyeah..   12:37 28/11 2007
picturecool..keep improving..i agreed with the transfer system,n credits donation (fair to poor team)..for the forums,i think its doin great right now..if u just open few forums for new language,but people are not really using those forum its pointless..lets see how would the new system doin later..gudluck everyone.welcome season 30!!!

By : Ancelotti1How much..?   14:58 28/11 2007
pictureHow much difference is it between the new and old Q- and value formula?
It seems good, but I wonder how it's gonna be like when it actually is implemented.

I understand why you've implemented donation limits, but I don't think it's good for me anyway, I kind of need to buy credits from other managers. :/

I was also hoping that my suggestion would be implemented. This one:
"Substitute *Player name* for worst performing *position* with performance less than 45/50/55/60"

Hopefully it will be implemented later.

By : OsloborgerCredits   18:01 28/11 2007
pictureSynes 10 var meget lavt antall. Det vil antagelig vanskeliggjøre ting for de lag med lite penger. Grensen burde nok vært høyere enn bare 10.

Rart at man sletter sparkede spillere, for slike var jo varp for fattige lag, med tanke på at budene gjorde spillerne dyrere enn de klubbløse. Gode lag kan jo sparke Q 74 osv over en viss alder fordi deres eget gjennomsnitt er høyt.

By : SpinnerHmmmm   18:18 28/11 2007
pictureAlways interesting to see how some features have reached far beyond the original intent

This limit is meant to avoid those without lots of credits to buy players..
And yet it is users who do not buy credits who are opposed to it, because now we have made it more difficult to get by without buying credits
Thats almost a little catch 22 right there!

I am going to rethink the actual limits here, and I am open to suggestions on different numbers than 10 and 100......

By : E.T.?credits   18:39 28/11 2007
pictureno way.
the game need the credits deal.

If someone can't buy credits, he can sell a good player and play 150 friendlies/ season.
after that limitation 100, will be more hard for them.

By : LFC93Ser hærlig ut   19:07 28/11 2007
pictureSer fint ut...
Gleder meg til neste sesong..

By : mitch hedbergML lifestyle   19:24 28/11 2007
picturespinner - fantastic work, as usual. can't wait for the new season!!

By : Mikitosounds great   19:40 28/11 2007
picturespinner keep up the good job !!!

By : Jan Fredrik!!!   20:54 28/11 2007
pictureGREAT! THANKS!

By : BongoSpinner   22:04 28/11 2007
picture. Hey. I've seen you found a logo 5th season. Was it something i said?
. I don't really understand the credit deals
. Great updates. wow

By : RachelFun   22:44 28/11 2007
pictureGreat work Spinner, thanks

Now let nobody disturb you with developing League and Cup Winner CupsWinky

By : Brutal Kaasenthx spinner   00:05 29/11 2007
picturefor another season and another great update

By : abalardoGreat !   00:38 29/11 2007
pictureThis looks great. I like this limitation in cred.deals. What the exact limit should be I'm not sure about, but that it is needed there is no question about.

By : Mancagg   00:47 29/11 2007
pictureGlad to see the player's value - transfer aspects updates.
Nice season update

By : tullochBrrraaappp!!!   02:04 29/11 2007
pictureWell Done Spincer. Time to bring more PAIN!!

By : Sir Scottish!!!   08:28 29/11 2007
picturenice

By : Steven G GerrardWell done!   09:14 29/11 2007
pictureThis is the best improvments ever. Well done Spinner!

By : SpinnerCredit-limits changed...   15:17 29/11 2007
pictureAfter careful consideration and feedback from you guys, the credit limits have been raised from 10 / 100 to 20 / 200.

By : Mr KaizerCredit-limits changed...   16:11 29/11 2007
pictureWell done, Spinner!

By : MarshallerMarshaller   17:07 29/11 2007
pictureYeah wonderfull update ...............

i had a lot of players at 25 age .... Quality 86 .......

And now : 83 MAXIMUM.......

They were very expensive to buy.....

if they lost 3 quality points each saison next saisson they ll got 80 ....

WHAOU .......

Great update ....

end of the line for manager league for me ... bye

By : sirmahatwhen the season arrive.....   17:23 29/11 2007
picturemany team frustrated and not satisfied with the new formula of the Qualities.....
wonder how you will feel........

By : SirMagelsGreat, but...   17:41 29/11 2007
pictureGreat but I dont like the new Q formula

By : Antero Emanuelnice upgrades   17:41 29/11 2007
pictureits ok good work,,,
good season for all

By : MrWhitedont like it............   17:47 29/11 2007
picturethink the new Q formula sucks!!.....and the teams that did not play the dev. version should be compensated for the money they spent on high Q player last season............they have all dropped 3-5Q and are now worthless compared to last season..........not fair!! it can not be right that some managers knew this and some did not....not fair!!! adm. and friends probarly sold out last season...??

By : vm91WHat???   17:48 29/11 2007
pictureWhy are my players back at were they was befor the last season.. ??? Forexampel was my player Joachim Sw 77 before this season ended, and now he is 75:S

By : DJetehMarshaller   17:52 29/11 2007
pictureMarshaller

They wont lose 3Q a season it was just this one as the formula was changed

By : MarshallerDjeteh   18:02 29/11 2007
pictureit changes nothing .......

i lost a lot of money .......
some of my players will have Q 90 at 29 ages .....

And Now ???????

they ll never get it ..........

Stupid upgrade ....
i lost my time and my credits to grow up players and they lost 3 points this saisson
Don t buy credits guys... it doesn t help your team .... Admins can diminish your team !!!
THX SPINNER

By : Mr_HoltskogGood work!   18:06 29/11 2007
pictureNice work! I liked ur new transfer rules!

By : BambuzNo no no...   18:19 29/11 2007
pictureDont like this development at all, maybe my last season..

By : chritorGood going   18:31 29/11 2007
pictureThis is fantastic.

By : F_RydbeckJesus, Quality formula change?   19:48 29/11 2007
pictureWhy the hell did we need this quality formula change? Totally useless... Pointless IMO,
I wont win a freakin' game this season with my team...

By : terror1MISTO   20:12 29/11 2007
pictureASTIA FAC MISTO DE NOI.

By : Hunter H HelmsleyPlayers...   20:40 29/11 2007
picturewhat the hell happend to my players after this season?? I was knocked back 3 sesons when it comes to rating. Older players lose 2 skill points after they are 32 (or something) Now my best player who is 25 lost 3 skill points, what the f*** is up with that?? My team sucks as much as it did three sesons ago.

By : Marching On TogetherHmmm...   21:22 29/11 2007
pictureI'll give it a go... Winky
Although i'm the only team in my department getting a Q69 youngster , the other teams got from 72-75...
Give Spinner a hand ... he's doin' a great job...

By : MarshallerHEY SPINNER   21:49 29/11 2007
pictureI got a question for spinner.

Shall you avoid all these credits spended to grow up our players???

To make a Q86 with a player you have to buy credits and make friendlies.
Now these players have 83 ... What about all the credits spended?????


By : Super Scrati like   23:16 29/11 2007
picturei like the new changes.. my players dropped some Q but np
and i specially like this change:
- To avoid confusion, I now print a little friendly warning if you book a training-camp that involves RESTING (which is pointless during a training-camp)
--since i sugested it to spinner a.. yay me (klapp på skuldern)

Hope ppl stop complating about the changes since it is happening and its whats best for the game

take care all! and good luck

ps.. the value of my players is soooo high


By : parADepartment top player   00:25 30/11 2007
picture"- A League and Division selector has been added to the 4 normal rankings, so you can see the ranking-list you wish without using cryptic URLs!"

How about a department selector as well?

By : SpinnerSigh...   02:25 30/11 2007
picture

I got a question for spinner.

Shall you avoid all these credits spended to grow up our players???

To make a Q86 with a player you have to buy credits and make friendlies.
Now these players have 83 ... What about all the credits spended?????


You do not get it.
The QUALITY has no direct meaning, is not used in the simulator, and does not affect how your players play.
This season, like any other, your players have lost the exact number of attributes as always. It is just the NUMBER CALLED QUALITY that has changed, not your players.

Let me put it in a different way to make it easier to understand.

Lets say you buy a Mercedes 220 E and pay 50.000 $ for it.
The next month, Mercedes decides to sell the car under the name Mercedes 195 E in stead, even though it is the exact same car.
Would you still go "OOOOHHH NOOOOO, I'VE WASTED 12% OF MY MONEY" ?

The players have not changed, only the number which isn't used for anything except calculating Value and Wages.....
I could set the Quality of all your players to 200, or 1000...they would still be the same players, and perform the exact same in the matches, as long as the REAL ATTRIBUTES have not changed...Why is this so hard to understand?

By : SpinnerAnd again...   02:26 30/11 2007
picture

Why the hell did we need this quality formula change? Totally useless... Pointless IMO,
I wont win a freakin' game this season with my team...


How many times must I repeat myself...Your players have not dropped dramatically, only a number which isn't used for anything but Value and Wages calculation...

By : SpinnerAnd more..   02:28 30/11 2007
picture


what the hell happend to my players after this season?? I was knocked back 3 sesons when it comes to rating. Older players lose 2 skill points after they are 32 (or something) Now my best player who is 25 lost 3 skill points, what the f*** is up with that?? My team sucks as much as it did three sesons ago.



No, they do not. Do not confuse SKILLS or ATTRIBUTES with QUALITY.
They have not lost any Skill or Attribute, it is just the way Quality is calced that has changed to allow for a more fair Value-calculation.

Is there anyone who still do not get it?

By : pgleeREAD!!!!!!   06:36 30/11 2007
picturewow.. guys please read before commenitng.... Quality has nothing to do with performance.. its just a "sum" of their attributes... their attributes are the same as past seasons drop.. just the way used to calculate their total "sum" is differnt

its the same thing like using a "last in first out" and "first in first out" inventory system... amount of inventory (in this case "skills") is still the same, just different ways of looking at the skills

Also i like the limitations on credit deals now;... will make people less able to "buy" a good team with rl money

By : ..WannabeGreat   07:37 30/11 2007
pictureBut the is not so cool

By : miss_spoonsHAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHA   11:03 30/11 2007
pictureLove it - i looked at my team this season and was like *eyes pop out* HUH???
Then i looked at the forums and was like *brain pings out on spring* HUH???
This has got to be the season with the most obvious changes!

Im hoping this credits thing wont be for me too as noone will get their translation creds haha.
Will use this season to get the rest of the translations done hopefully.

When is this manual out???????

BTW - guys, you realise this Q thing is for everyone right? So even though your team has gone down in Q, so has everyone elses so it isnt really affecting anyone!

By : AlvezHello   20:15 30/11 2007
pictureI agree, congratulations to the team of the MANAGER LEAGUE!

By : Jan FredrikLOL   20:21 30/11 2007
picture You can donate more than 10 credits to 1 team per season, and the max is 200.

That's not right, you have putted it up to 20...

By : Nick989Hmmm...   01:01 01/12 2007
pictureAll's good but i feel that the increased valuation and cost to buy youth players has gone slighty too far!

My team is in division 4 now and tbh i lack money, now as my team is starting to age more and more, i cannot sell my older players as their value is decreasing and no1 wants to buy them but yet i also cannot buy youth players as their value has suddenly shot ''through the roof.''

It seems that to be successful in ML you needed to have had young players and plenty of cash before season 30 began. As there were no warnings of these changes, now teams such as my own are struggling to afford new and decent players!

By : Power_MaxNick989   10:27 01/12 2007
pictureyou do have a problem nick...
but thats why you are called the manager... not only do we try to improve our team, but also our financial matters as well. i suggest you cut back your expenses... like trainings, and concentrate in expanding your stadium.

wow... just browsed the search for teamless with age of 17 quality 68 and their value is just over 13 mil.
better apply again what i've said to nick

By : E.T.?to Spinner   11:38 01/12 2007
pictureLets say you buy a Picasso ...
After 2 months you discover that is a fake .
You will want your money back even the paint look like a Picasso?




By : Internet_TycoonIrrelevant interpretation E.T   07:52 02/12 2007
pictureyour interpretation to the example is not the same as to what the game owner is telling us.
he is telling us that the quality of each player has no bearing in his performance. the quality is meant for player value and their wage caps only (right mr. game owner?).
the example, the cars are sold by a certain company has all the same attribute of the car except one thing, the brand name. not fake but a duplicate.

anyway, the observation of miss spoon should be emphasized here. this is her thought: "BTW - guys, you realise this Q thing is for everyone right? So even though your team has gone down in Q, so has everyone elses so it isnt really affecting anyone!" although our players lost some quality, all other manager also experienced this crisis. so the edge of a certain team to the other team, the same. even if you used all your credits to boost your players attributes, the same effect will happen if you did not boost their attributes on friendlies.
just want to help in clearing things out. i hope it did.

cheers everybody

By : machetilloum?   06:10 03/12 2007
pictureum?arabic please

By : MalayedWhat will happen?   16:09 04/12 2007
pictureWhat will happen if the team have less than 20 credits?

By : Adriano Calzzo"more fair transfers"...you ****ing me??   01:33 09/12 2007
pictureTHIS SEASON TOTALLY DESTROYED ME!!!!!............."more fair transfers" <---I DON'T think so, just because of some problems you encounter in the game that doesn't mean you have to put the youths price sooooooooooooooooo ENORMOUS!!!!!.....and then, didn't you want this game to look more and more similar to the real life football...i am really dissapointed:

By : karimaTURKİSH RAKİ BALİK   10:54 09/12 2007
pictureMANYAK BİŞEY OLMUŞ EMEĞİ GEÇENLERE TEŞEKKÜR EDERİM

By : KarlsbergTo spinner   13:06 09/12 2007
pictureJust like Adriano Calzzo,I do not like the Youth Prices.Can you belive it! some youths costs
about 6,000,000-13,000,000,and my cash balance is only 4,000,000+.I pity the small and poor teams cuz what will happened if their star players will retire?It will be a ghost team cuz no young talent will replace the retired ones.Do something about it spinner,before people start quitting the game.I too am suffering from the youths prices,just like others.

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